[XTension] Recommendation for X10 wall switches

Fri Apr 7 13:26:13 EDT 2023

If there is a neutral in the box then you have many options for things other than X10. I don’t even know if anyone is making an X10 capable switch anymore? I suppose X10 still is? Ah yes, they are they have their XPS4 relay and XPDI3 dimmer, but they are both the decora switch type and not the standard toggle type so they won’t fit into your multi-plate installs without replacing all the switches with new decora ones. Which I’ve done in every single box I’ve updated here and at friends houses, it’s not that difficult and the switches are cheap so thats really not beyond the pale as far as getting done is concerned. It also looks like X10 still sells their slightly newer dimmers of the old style that would fit in there and even have a relay switch of the old style. The WS18A that has the old pushbutton interface but they claim works with dimmable LED bulbs, which is nice, and the WS469 which is a relay switch in the old pushbutton style that would fit into the current wallplates as well. Those both require a neutral however so they may not work.

You’ll definitely want to pull out the switches and see if there is a neutral available in those boxes as that will open up a lot more possibilities if it is. As long as it’s on the same circuit anyway, if it’s on a different circuit then if you have ground fault breakers on the circuit they will trip immediately ;) Ask me how I know this…

If you want to start updating to ZWave, which I whole heartedly recommend, go get a Hubitat and a couple of switches to start. No need to do the whole system at once. I’ve been installing just 2 or 3 switches a year now and only have 2 bathroom lights and 3 closet lights to go! 

If you have a neutral but want to keep the current toggle switches then the devices that Kurt links to are terrific. They are fairly tiny and so will probably fit in the back of most boxes. They handle the dimming or the switching but have other terminals that you connect to the existing switch. Very light ire can be used for this to make it easier as there is no current involved and it’sjust 3.3 volts. So you move the load to the little box, hook the existing switch to the switch input and now the existing switch can control the dimmer, but the dimmer is also ZWave. They are very cool :) I’ve used several of them in similar situations and had no problems with them. Of course, the switch doesn’t change orientation when you remote control the dimmer so you have to treat it like a 3 way switch from them on, the up or down of the switch has nothing to do with the state of the light, just flip it to change the state.

If there really is no neutral then the best bet for ZWave are the WS300 ones also already linked to earlier in this thread. They really do work that way as far as I can tell reading about peoples experiences with them. But as mentioned with some reduced functionality as they have access to a lot less power. 

There is another thing I’ve seen some people do and read about people doing… I am NOT suggesting you do this, indeed I’m mentioning it so that when you find a reference to it on the internet you already know that I told you not to do it. That being said I did it once for a while in an old house and it worked… That is to just connect the neutral of the switch to ground. If it’s on a ground fault breaker then this will not work at all. If it isn’t then this will potentially put current onto the ground. Not a lot of it, but you’re really not supposed to do this and if your house burns down later or if you get electrocuted thinking the grounds should be clean of power all your insurance companies will disown you and rightly so.

So to sum up :) X10 switches seem to still be available even in their slightly improved newer versions, but they require a neutral.

New ZWave switches are expensive, about twice what the X10 switches cost on sale, but less so when they aren’t on sale like right now. A new Hubitat will set you back $170 for the latest C8 version, but amazon has the last model, the C7 on sale for $120 right now and that is a very capable device that you won’t have any complaints with even if the newer one has a faster processor and better antennas. 
You don’t have to spend a bazillion on replacing every switch now, it’s just fine to keep both systems running at the same time as XTension and all of your scripts don’t care what the physical device is or if that chances as you add more switches.

But if you do that you will probably have to replace all the existing switches in multi-gang boxes with decora ones. This isn’t as bad as it sounds ;) 

and don’t do the hacky dangerous ground thing, unless you really want to, but don’t tell me about it.

> On Apr 1, 2023, at 2:42 PM, Kurt Sheffer <xtensionlist at ksheffer.info> wrote:
> 
> If you're willing to add a Z-Wave interface, here is a solution that would allow you to stick with toggle switches and also does not require a neutral:
> https://aeotec.com/products/aeotec-nano-dimmer/ <https://aeotec.com/products/aeotec-nano-dimmer/> <https://aeotec.com/products/aeotec-nano-dimmer/ <https://aeotec.com/products/aeotec-nano-dimmer/>>
> 
> I have not used Aeotec's nano dimmers but have several of their nano switches. The nano switches are the same package but relay instead of dimmer. Those do require a neutral.
> 
> You will find wired Z-Wave devices to be much less subject to interference and gremlins than X10. I haven't had great luck with battery-operated Z-Wave remotes so I still have several PalmPads and SlimFires which are both cheaper and more reliable.
> 
> -Kurt
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2023, at 11:57 AM, Christian Boyce <macman at christianboyce.com <mailto:macman at christianboyce.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> To clarify, as far as the wiring goes I know I have a hot coming in, then the X10 switch, then the same wire going out. Both black.
>> 
>> There are two other light switches in that box. It’s a three-gang box. I can see the ground wire, and I can see a red wire. There may be a white one but thanks to the painters being a little sloppy most of the wires are the same color as the walls. But for sure, there is a red wire (going to another switch). 
>> -- 

Thanks,
 James

James Sentman                       http://www.PlanetaryGear.org		http://MacHomeAutomation.com

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