electrical as a source of X10 issues

[George Handley]

Good evening James,

First, some clarifications. I don't know what he first measured at my meter, because he got there before I knew he was in the neighborhood, but when first checking at the pedestal, he was getting 127 vac on one leg. The other was about 125 vac. He then tightened all nine of the lugs, and connected my ground. We went back to our meter again and measured and I was getting 124+ vac on one and now 127vac on the other. He was even uncomfortable with 127 saying that their marching orders is to make sure it's no higher than 125 vac.

At this point, he went down the block and tested the transformer which was just replaced this summer. He said all lugs were tight, and both sides we right at 125vac. It was then that we got into the discussion of what could cause a +2v increase. Initially, he didn't have a clue, but finally in reflection, he came up with the story about someplace he'd been that was the only other instance he'd ever seen this happen in his 35 years, and that location was later learned to have a lot of iron in the soil. He conjured up the idea that maybe we had iron too, and it was acting like a transformer's flux in itself. I do know that all the soil around here is like modeling clay, and is full of moisture which would make for a better conductor.

Now I know that is a bizarre explanation, but at least it is one plausible one. Your explanation about a missing neutral also has merit, but not a loose neutral or ground at the breaker boxes as I have even personally tediously gone through each and every neutral and ground wire as well as all breakers in both boxes to make sure everything was tight. Now maybe there is a junction box someplace around the house that has a loose common. That might be possible.

How can one identify a load without a common? How could the load work without a neutral? Obviously, after four years, I would know if something around here isn't getting electricity.

I'm going to give it a couple weeks to see if I can detect any new funnies, or better yet, no X10 funnies!

I doubt that I've said anything new here, but if I have turned on a light bulb in your head, I'd sure be interested to learn more.

Thanks,

George


On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:01 PM, James Sentman <james at sentman.com> wrote:

> 
> On Oct 11, 2013, at 3:12 PM, George Handley <ghandley at kc.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> Boy, I couldn't agree with you more, causing me to quarry the lineman at the time for some length. It was at that point he offered that iron in the soil between me and the transformer could possible explain the +2vac phenomena. However, again, I need to observe for a couple weeks to see if Michael's "Happiness" factor returns before calling them again. :-)
>> 
> 
> I can't accept this as an explanation for this at all. It sounds to me like one of those fictions that we tell people when we dont know what the hell is going on.
> 
> There are so many possibilities to explain it. He had a less than perfect connection when he measured at the pedestal or transformer so he measured less there than when he got to your house is just the most likely. 
> 
> But another way voltage can measure high is if you have a loose or missing neutral connection. In which case you now have a big voltage divider between the 2 phases of your house with all your loads providing the resistance on each side. Electricity will flow through one side and then through the other and the voltage depends on the load. Usually in the main panel the neutral and ground are tied together in the US anyway. THere is no ground carried from the panel out to the pedestal, at least not around here. If the neutral was missing or loose or corroded or anything then the voltage will fluctuate a lot as the load changes too. 
> 
> Thanks,
> 	James
> 
> 
> James Sentman                       http://sentman.com		http://MacHomeAutomation.com
> 
> 
> 
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